Gabe Sumner

Gabe Sumner

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Sitefinity - Please, No More Modules!

I have been struggling off & on for weeks to upgrade this web site to Sitefinity 3.2.  If you're interested read about this journey here and here.

Please understand, I'm a big fan of Sitefinity and Telerik.  But with regard to Sitefinity 3.2 it's fairly obvious little thought or testing was devoted to "upgrading", specifically with regard to Sitefinity modules.  Significant changes were introduced into the Blogs module, as well as other modules.  The net effect: upgrading to 3.2 caused my data to disappear.  Telerik later released raw SQL that could be run to retrieve Blog data.  But, as of this writing I'm still encountering problems.

After repeatedly trying and failing to upgrade, I couldn't help but think; didn't anyone try this?  I won't sugar-coat this.  This is annoying.  It's never fun to encounter obvious bugs or invest hours with little or no progress.  However, as the weeks went by I came to a strange conclusion:

The problem is only partially that Telerik didn't do sufficient testing on the Blogs module.  The real problem is that a Blogs module was ever created in the first place!

At this point you're probably saying "Huh?".  Stay with me.   Consider the following 2 statements:

  • Sitefinity solves your problems.
  • Sitefinity empowers you to easily solve your own problems.

Where do you personally stand on this?  Consider your answer carefully because it will heavily impact the future of this product. 

Consider the evidence!

Leaving aside the question of philosophical choice, let's look at the current evidence:

  • We have modules relating to Forums, Newsletters, Events, Polls, Blogs and Photos.
  • We do not have API documentation.

I am fearful we (Telerik & the Sitefinity Community) knowingly or unknowingly are going down the "give us fish" path rather than the "teach us to fish" path.  This is evidenced by the countless forum posts asking for "canned" solutions to problems.  (Yes, I have been guilty of this too.)  It is also evidenced by Telerik's willingness to devote time & effort to satisfy these requests in lieu of providing documentation or core API examples. 

Consider the following diagram:

When you look at the diagram above, you begin to understand the trouble Telerik is encountering.  In each of these "green" areas Sitefinity is competing with long-standing niche products.  People, like myself, have started to become reliant on these Sitefinity modules.   However, instead of being happy Sitefnity provides a plug-n-play Blog control, we instead become unhappy that it lacks WordPress features.  Instead of being happy we have a Forums module, we instead wonder why it lacks the features of CommunityServer.

Telerik is now involved in the relentless race for features in not just one area, but many areas.  Sitefinity is on the path to becoming a "jack of all trades" and "master of none".  In pursuing this path, Telerik is spreading themselves too thin, making sloppy mistakes and neglecting the things that matter.  Please understand, I don't object to having a Forums module or a Blogs module; rather I object to having these extra features at the cost of core features or documentation.  Those are the things that would empower ME to extend the product in personalized & innovative ways.

Staying True to your Roots!

I can't speak for everyone, but what drew me to Sitefinity was its incredible page editor & control editor.  I was amazed the first time I created my own ASP.NET User Control and was able to drag, drop & customize it in a web browser.  Sitefinity seemed to be part CMS, part Framework and fully supported the ASP.NET techniques & methods I was already familiar with.  Amazing!  The possibilities seemed limitless. 

I also loved how the "Site Map" made the organization of my web site self-evident.  However, all of these new modules pull content out of my "Site Map" to be managed and organized separately.  In some cases this is appropriate, in other cases it's not.  For example, it remains impossible to create a "File" node inside my "Site Map".  Sitefinity remains limited to "Pages" and "Links".  Those are your only 2 options and this limits my ability to extend Sitefinity in the way I choose.

This article is being typed into a Sitefinity Blog Module.  This Module doesn't use the core Sitefinity page editor I originally fell in love with.   I can't use my dynamic controls in my blog post.  In fact, many of the newest Sitefinity features fall outside the beautiful core.  In doing so, Sitefinity is bypassing the thing that enthused me about the product in the first place.  It's like being invited to an amazing banquet only to be shuffled into a broom closet to feast on a Hungry Man TV dinner

This is a direct result of a strategy that chooses to "extend the product through tacked-on modules" versus "allowing the core of Sitefinity to be utilized, customized & extended in unique ways". 

I'm simply one person, but I recommend Telerik concentrate on the "core" area, shown in the above diagram.  This is what makes Sitefinity unique.  I want Sitefinity to continue to become not merely an incredible CMS, but an incredible development framework.  I want Sitefinity to be a product that empowers us, as developers, to easily address our own niche needs.  Even if a solution isn't readily available, there will be a wealth of experience and samples to draw from.  Lastly, I do not want to be lulled into using "freebie niche features" that break each time a new version of product is released. 

The title of my article "Please, No More Modules" isn't really meant to be taken literally.  I appreciate that Sitefinity is capable of a lot right out of the box (no programming necessary).  That's a good thing!  However, it is more important that Sitefinity be a comfortable development environment for programmers.  While Telerik is wasting time fixing Blog upgrade problems, this crucial area is being neglected.

I welcome comments from others.  This is just one Sitefinity user's opinion.  Please weigh in with your own thoughts.

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Comments  196

  • Erik Harper 21 Apr, 12:22 PM

    Gabe, You are putting into words what I have been trying to conjure for weeks now. You are absolutely correct in the fact that the documentation and API are crucial components that are being neglected. I think the blog module as of 3.1 SP2 works good enough and I am still hesitating the upgrade because I rely on that module so much. It will probably take a few more releases before I can be convinced that my hard work on the blogs won't go down the drain, or at least require me to re-tool everything using their new controls.

    I'm glad your blog exists! I have been getting the same feelings you have about Sitefinity and as a new customer I hope that the advice given here can be heeded with importance since I can sense a potential change in focus of the product. I want to say that I am with you all the way on this and keep up the great work!

    Erik




  • Erik Harper 22 Apr, 01:26 PM

    You know what else Gabe would make so much sense is for Telerik to open source all of its modules and let the dev community expand upon them as needed! I mean look at all of the successful open source products out there that thrive on the community. I think this would also free up resources for the SF team to focus more on the core of the CMS rather than trying to implement all of this feature-specific functionality that a lot of other products specialize in.

    I mean heck, the work you do could be contributed to the eventual source of SF and that benefits everybody.


  • Ivan Osmak 23 Apr, 06:38 AM

    Gabe, you’ve made some pretty good points. Now, you must be expecting me to say how much I appreciate your feedback and that we are definitely going to consider it in the future. Well… we are not going to consider it. We are already working on it!

    We’ve been listening to the community for a long time and I assure you the feedback you and other people have provided us with has not fallen on deaf ears.

    Here’s the deal. Developer’s docs made it to the top priority. You’ll see a lot of improvements here, and not just in the area of developer’s manual, but we’ll be extending the ways that people can easily and in a timely manner learn how to develop for Sitefinity. We are going to have a video series only for developers, as well as some other exciting things, but more about it later on. So, we are definitely going to take care of the “docs situation”.

    Along with the documentation (in which I’ll be quite involved, so I’ll be actively blogging on this topic), we are concentrating on upgrading procedures (which have caused you so much pain, unfortunately), optimizing the “core”, as you have put it, for much better performance and in general making Sitefinity much smoother.

    Obviously, we cannot stop the development on the modules (though we’ll do it a bit slower for a while), because, as you have said, we did enter the relentless race, but we also intend to win it!

    Regards,
    Ivan – Sitefinity team


  • Gabe Sumner 23 Apr, 07:46 AM

    Hi Ivan,

    Thank you for posting and explaining what is happening internally. I am encouraged by your words.

    Regarding the feature race; it happens. Most of us are programmers because we enjoy "creating things". This is what makes our jobs enjoyable to us. This is true for me and I know it's easy to get caught up in the race to climb the next mountain.

    Creating documentation, writing "how to" articles, or testing upgrade scenarios is not high on many programmer's wish list. I know by the time I'm finished getting something working; I'm ready to move on. It's always a struggle to explain myself and/or report my findings to others.

    Furthermore, I understand Sitefinity is trying to edge its way into the CMS market. This means you will be compared side-by-side on the dreaded "feature list". Some of this (most of this?) is little more than marketing fluff...but I'm sure it impacts your bottom-line. Being able to put a "check" next to Blogs, Forums, Polls, etc. likely does have an impact.

    ---

    Returning to the point though, I always liked Sitefinity's "Built for Developers, Inspired by End-Users" slogan. To me, this means having the features that make end-users comfortable, while establishing an underlying technical framework that makes Sitefinity a good development platform.

    Accomplishing both of these will be challenging, I'm happy to hear you intend to win the race.

    Thanks again for posting.

    Gabe Sumner
    http://www.goondocks.com/


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